More comments from Revenge of the Nice Guy
Anon Person said…
I agree with Jerkmenistan's point that reciprocal rejection is not the answer. It may be good to avoid untrustworthy women, but avoiding women altogether seems defeatist to me.
Avoiding all women isn't the answer, but avoiding the going divorce rate percentage of them is. It IS good to avoid untrustworthy women, not MAYbe.
The first question: are men in successful relationships going to be visiting these sites? Does it raise an alarm that this blog and similar ones might be echo chambers for those with failed relationships?
I'm single and always have been, mid-30's, and enjoy informative sites such as this one that actually cover reality. And it's this reality thing that makes sites like this one important for all walks of life that value truth. The only alarm comes from posters that seemingly are here only for some kind of denigration.
All we hear on these sites is that marriages are failing; rarely is any information given about how the husband managed the relationship and whether his management was up to par.
It's well known women complain at any given chance. You haven't heard true complaints about hubby because he's not at fault; it's her that wants out of the marriage on a whim.
Three: does it make sense to adopt the same shrill and toxic communication styles favoured by the militant feminists? I get sick when I read some of those militant feminist sites, because their rough language gives me the impression that they are unintelligent, unreasonable and, most importantly, very hateful. Do we want to mirror that kind of attitude? Are we trying to bring information and change, or are we trying to stoke our own anger and foment hurt among women?
More rhetorical questions used in the attempt to devalue.
I am trying to advocate a reasonable attitude to this discussion.
Most modern Western women have proven they cannot make a commitment to marriage. Discussions in these sites are normally very important because they revolve around such truths. Men, eventually, will cognize reality because of sites like this one. Now, this won't be good for well, scum that profit from ignorance, but there will be much less suffering in the world, for men and women and children, because of sites like this one, because the intentions are to promote wisdom.
More comments from Revenge of the Nice Guy
"Observational Friendship" - a bit of a waste of time really. If she sees you only as "a friend" then there is likely to be very little chance of a relationship developing (except on her terms, of course, if you are that STUPID !). If, over time, she does "lower her sights" (remember, you were never ever her first choice), having realised she is not marriagable and rejected her, you will have lost a 'friendship'.
Stick to the old tried and tested method of dating and observing her from there.
anon p said…
It still amazes me sometimes how people are misreading comments and substituting their own words for a commenter's.
I have written a number of comments in this thread, a few more than I intended really, but the thrust of my comments have always been to consider the issues objectively, ie. from all the angles, to arrive at a better assessment of the issue i light of all the circumstances in one's life. You, and a few others, have taken this to mean that I am denigrating or devaluing the position espoused in this blog. But I have stated in almost every single comment that I agree there is a problem in men-women relationships; where I disagree is that this problem exists in every relationship and that there is no possibility of engaging women in healthy and meaningful relationships. I bring up this up this point because it seems taken for granted that there is no potential opportunities for good relationships.
No, it's more that there are so very few rational reasons to sign a legal document that binds yourself to a woman that will PROBABLY screw you at least a little, maybe a lot, or maybe totally, that well, why do it?
My questions, then, are meant to raise alternative viewpoints, so that one can consider the issue more thoroughly and come away with a more realistic picture, taking into consideration all the circumstances of one's life. It does men a disservice if we propagate a message that might be true in 50% of the entire reality as if it is entirely true; haven't we prevented men from finding a way to make themselves part of the other successful 50%? As a mature man, do you approach a decision in your life only by considering only one side of the issue? This seems to me a weakness in the thinking and reasoning process.
No, I don't, that's what a western wife does, and quite destructively at that. I wouldn't even call it thinking.
As for managing the relationship, I can only agree that women can often complain and that their thinking isn't as long-term or principled as men's. But there are a number of ways to look at this issue: 1) women think differently from men and we can't expect them to see things exactly as we see them; 2) there are still things men can do to control the course of a relationship, and in fact, every man does have a responsibility to do something about this. There was a comment earlier that women do not appreciate that men are working hard to support their families, and that this doesn't make sense. On one level, that is true. But men and women are approaching relationships for different reasons and different positions. The women's focus tends to be centered on herself more, and when she has children, will be more concerned with raising her children. There is an inherent tendency among women to do this because of evolutionary psychology to raise her young, and it is also seen in the animal kingdom. Men have a different attitude, more in line with conquering the environment, which gets translated to achievement and success in the human world. These differences in perspective will thus manifest itself in different behaviour and different needs. So what men need in their lives is going to be different than what women need, and if we are going to just pay attention to ourselves without considering the woman's needs, then she will find it elsewhere.
Some men understand the nature of the typical Western woman well enough to never legally bind themselves to her. Odds are this is a wise move, like it or not. She may find something somewhere else, but she'll never stop wanting. Just look at her, she's not held accountable for a damn thing after suckering him into marriage(or anytime), but yet she can't stand it, always wanting more. And then stilll men are blamed. Woman's every need has been considered in other words, look where it's gotten us. How many inventions will it take, for example. Men have been out there doing it, watching her back the whole time, and all for this. Woman's attitude has "changed" since feminism, not the attitude of most real men, and that's reflected everywhere, can you not see that? Men haven't ruined the prospect of marriage, dumb women have. Women's attitude towards MEN must change, and men must start holding women accountable for their actions. It's obvious where the blame lies, it's effects are all over the damn place, but you have to be willing to recognize it first. I'll change your last sentence to:
So what women need in their lives is going to be different than what men need, and if we are going to just pay attention to ourselves without considering the men's needs, then eventually they will recognize that there is nothing in marriage for them, and rightfully avoid it.